Why are our Harari women looking elsewhere to marry?

Harari women are out looking for non harari just for the simple fact that harari men need a lesson on how to express themselves better, and communicate as they should.(those who don't already).
Mostly, Harari men these days are too busy elsewhere such as bercha, etc..and not focused on spending quality time with their wife and kids and out spending past midnight not even knowing whereabouts of their children. Is this a family life? its understandable that we should all have social life but harari men are having a hard time realizing they should spend most of their time with family as opposed to friends or bercha.
But the main point, harari women are looking for a non harari guy not because for the mere fact a non harari man is better, but because the women are not happy with what they have experienced or what they've heard about harari men. It all comes to a point where communication levels between married couples should be stronger than it is..also, these days it seems like harari men are leaning towards defining "wife" as "money" which quran page indicates that a guy should marry for the mere fact of wives wealth? fortunate for them, women these days are becoming independent! As Ahlii said above its all about getting to know the person before jumping into marriage,even with that said there is no guarantee it will be a happy one. It all falls to the will of Allah.

Dear Sisters and Brothers,

I would like to thank Harar Li to bring a pertinent problem of our Harari society, both in and outside the country. instade of blaming each other, we have to express our views and share ideas to look for alternative solution. Whether you are in America, Janeva, Addis or Harar Harari women have several erroneous assumptions about Harari men (thier mate) and same applied vis-versa. It is not a new phenomena that the ladies are complianing about the husband. Our grandmas and mothers passed through the same experience. However, the difference is the way they look for a solution. During the old good days, If a Harari wife has a compliant regarding the her mate, she present the issue to her family, or his best friend, or she might leave the house "Gar-Hudug". After discussing the problem with family and friend, the husband will come to her parent's house ask her politly to return back home that solves all the problem. These days we are not seeing such things happening, especially in the western world. As a result the divorce rate has increased with alarming rate.
I really appriciate most of the pionts reased by my sisters as well as my brothers. This is not a mare problem of Harari males or Harari females. It is a societal problem to to loss of our socio-cultural and religous intergity. The prblem is beyond the males demading for "BARCHA" or let me my time attitude or the females looking for flowers or "I need special care" attutude.
Saying the above, I would like to suggest the following:
1.WE shouldn't conclude that the SOLUTION for the mismatching of some Harari men and women couples is marrying a none Harari man or woman. eventhough, that might be one option.
2. At individual level, let us all agree to look back and try to identify our weakness and change our attitude and action as well.
3. When we are involved in relationship (marriage), we should have tolerance to the bad characters of each other, try to understand each other needs, likes and dislikes, identify our problems and look for alternative solution. We need to have Patience, patience and patience. Both for lads and gays, patiency is the key sustian in marital relationship. We better learn from our history how our parents and grandparents could able to live together for 30, 50 or 80 years together. They had tolerance to each other.
Let me suggest one more solution:
Resently, I was in North America visiting my brothers and sisters. I have observed that Harari males do appriciate gathering together and cheewing chat. This has been mentioned as the major problem by some of my sisters. Let me suggest that try to arrange a " BARCHA" ceremony that will rotate from one home to the other that might include the family member. The husband, wife and the kids (if there is any) will all attend at one place. That will bring a stromg bond among the Harari male, female and the kids as well.Even you can argue on diffirent issues and views. You can solve personal and collective problems. Beyond that you could create a nuclous towards biulding a good Harari society and social living.

Let us discuss more,
ANWa

It is really good we are talking about this issue, but at the same time it is discouraging to see how we are not focusing on the issue being discussed.

The original posting had NOTHING to do with abandoning our beautiful culture, and our religion. I haven’t seen or met any Hararian that is not proud of who they are. We have a very beautiful culture, family values, and a religion that we all should be proud of.

Talking about the western movies and music videos in this posting has nothing to do with what we are trying to accomplish here. Assuming that our women will be tempted to copy what is being shown in the movies and music videos is just wrong…I think you are completely underestimating your Harari sisters. Our men are forgetting how far we as Harari women have come along. True, there might be temptations, but at the same time there is a thing called our values and our upbringings as Hararians. Our families have raised us well, educated us on the good and the bad, taught us the values of life and above all taught us the Muslim religion very well. We do respect the culture, we do respect our religion and we do respect ourselves not to be tempted by unnecessary glitters and glamour. We are educated and smart women who know what is good and bad for us.

I have attended multiple Harari organized weddings, parties, get-togethers and our July 4th events. In these different occasions we all have seen alcoholic drinks being served in front of our kids and elders. How soon have we forgotten all this and start attacking our women who want to marry a non-Harari Muslim guy? We said a lot about these women and we even brought religion into the discussion, but we all seem to forget what we are doing with our individual lives. We all are forgetting what we have become.

D.C Conc, in your posting you said that “They want you to cheapen yourself and lose your faith.” So does this apply to those who were tempted by alcohol and failed? As an individual if all this tempts me and I lose my faith then shame on me, but I know better not to fall for that.

You also mention how the western women are unhappy and are on anti-depressant. People can be unhappy for many, many reasons. What made you think that all our married/unmarried women are happy? What made you think that they are not already on anti-depressants due to unhealthy marriages or different social issues? The bottom line is that before you end up being unhappy, depressed and stressed out please make sure that you communicate with each other (Harari or non-Harari) so that you know what you are getting into.

I’m one of the women who did swear off Harari men, and hopefully in due time I will explain why (personal preference). In the mean time I want everyone to know that I do value our men as human beings, I do value them as my brothers, fathers, uncles, nephews and grand fathers, but I don’t see myself as being with them till the end. From what I have seen so far they just don’t have what it takes to make me and my fellow Harari sisters happy. So brothers don’t take this as something negative and focus on the negative side of it. Be smart and take this as a lesson and improve on your weak areas so that one day you make that someone a happy person.I know the truth hurts sometimes, but it had to be said.

In one of the posting somebody suggested that familys should try to arrange a barch ceremony that will rotate from one house to the next ,that way the whole family is included .As a mother this kind of comment shocks me.What are we teaching our kids by letting them see us chewing chat and smoking shisha?.Dont you know chewing chat is illegal.?Kid immitate their parents.
Most of the comment were how the western cultrue is bad for us.What is good about chewing chat and smoking shish?As a mother and a wife married to non harari it hurts me to see how our harari women complain about their men.Their main complaint is for their men to spend their off days help rasing the kids together instead of running the the bercha house.I understand that they might have the need to hangout with their buddies that can be done in moderation once a week for couple of hours not the whole night.
There is a lot of beautiful things about our culture,and at the same timesome bad ones that we can do without ,so fellows all we are saying is,it is ok to adopt some of the good things about the western culture .

Guest,
I agree with most of the points you have discussed regarding harari men..but you mentioned that they don't have what it takes to make to make you and your fellow harari sisters happy...that they need to improve on weak areas, why don't you suggest some weak points they should improve on, and what they should do to make Harari sisters happy, give them a few points to refer to to help them out maybe....

Guest, Guest, Sea…. e.t.c



This is one of the most embarrassing moments in the History of Harari People. It displays just how much damage is taking place to our society due to the ignorance and prejudice mentality of some of our Harari sisters. Speaking of making someone happy I can say Harari women would take the last position available. You Ladies don’t even know how to give Love, show respect and express your emotional feeling clearly. Some of even trying to blame Harari Men for your self-Hatred behavior that was build due to your ignorance. Some of you don’t even know what you want from your Men. It is so pathetic one of the Guest even swear on Harari Men, let me tell you messy, you lost it, No Men on earth would accept you for this kind of personality. You are suffering form self-destruction disorder. You said you accept Harari Men as a brother. Let me ask you a simple question: Whom do you think your brother would like to marry? Whom do you think your father got married? You simply become a cancer to Harari community; you are not bringing a solution to the issue you come up with such stupid idea that destructs the whole community. Please stay away as you are. We don’t need such ignorant people in our community

Dear Guest,



Thanks for the posting and thanks for asking me to suggest on the weak points when it comes to our men. I had a lot to say, but after reading D.C Conc’s email I don’t think there is any point in pointing out their weak points. He made it very easy on me and answered it for me.

D.C Conc, thanks for making it easy on me and showing us how disrespectful and ignorant you are. The idea of this posting was to educate, learn and encourage each other, but it is clear where you fit in all this. I don’t think I will sink to your level and post what I think of you. I think as an individual I do have the right to choose whom ever I wish to spend my life with and at the same time express myself with out being judged on why I chose to do that. People who do read this posting will agree with me on who the actual ignorant is and who the actual fool is in attacking an individual for choosing to be with someone other than you and your kind

My brother will marry whom ever he chooses to marry (Harari or non-Hararian) and no one will respond the way you did if he chooses to go the other route. My father married a beautiful Harari woman, and that is what he wanted…if he chose to marry a non-Harari woman back then would he have been insulted? Maybe by some one like you, but not by the educated community. Trust me we know what we want; the problem is you guys don’t know how to provide. You are disrespectful (you just proved my point for me by saying what you said) and you are threatened by someone who can speak her mind with out worrying about people like you. Please take this as a lesson and improve on your communication skills, this is not the right way to respond to any type of issues. You can disagree, but sinking this low and saying what you said to me and my Harari sisters is just despicable. I feel so sorry for you, and be careful one day you might have a daughter who might be as forward as some of us and tell you that she is marrying someone who is not Hararian. I hope I live to see that! May Allah forgive you for saying what you said in this posting!

D.C.conc,your comment towards harari women is outrageaous.How dare you imply that harari women are ignorant for voicing their opinion and choosing to marry whom ever they want,i guess now we know who the ignorant one is.
The purpose of posting this topic was to discuss certain issues,find solutions and just share experances ,without being verbally attacked.I hope this kind of ignorant comment wil not detere other women from expressing their opinion.

Dear Sisters and Brothers,



I would like to thanks both Conc. DC and Guest to expressing their feeling and concern. However, I have observed that both of you are proud of being Harari and have a big concern regarding the major problems of Harari society. If that is the case please stop hating, blaming and insulting each other, have a positive attitude and contribute some thing to identify our social problems towards getting or agreeing on possible solution. At this particular moment the Harari society is at the danger of extinction. Everybody agree that we Hararis’ do have a long history beautiful culture which is based on in Islamic religion. Both at home and abroad we do have a remarkable number of educated individuals in all sectors. If we are really concerned and agreed that the Harari community at a big danger, we do have the talent, skill and capacity to save “HARARI”.

If not “ Being HARARI’ will be a history after two to three decades.



So, PLEASE STOP INSULTING EACH OTHER AND HAVING UNNESESARY WRINGLING. LET US FOCUS ON IDENTIFING THE MAJOR PROBLEM AND LOOK FOR ALRERNATIVE SOLUTION.



ANWa

Guest



I can play this game year around. You are hiding your self behind the curtain by bashing Harari Men. I called you ignorant because according to Webster Merriam dictionary ignorance is the choice to not act or behave in accordance with regard to certain information in order to suit ones own needs; according to this deffinition you are a perfect candidate.



Let me walk you through your previous posting: First, you said” The original posting has nothing to do with abandoning our beautiful culture, and our religion” I don’t think you read what you wrote. It does not take a rocket science to figure this one out. Getting married with Harari Men is keeping your culture; making your parents happy is obeying your religion…e.t.c. None of these actions are taking place in some of our westernized, Bipolarized, confused Harari sisters. Any person on this forum would see that you are such confused woman run like a vehicle without a license plate. You lost your identity some where some how you lost it, instead of making a U turn and trying to find it you keep blaming and scapegoating Harari men as if his fault. You mention about consuming alcohol drinks, yes you right it should not be that way, but hey they can be Judged by their creature, Oppps, Aren’t we agree that we don’t put religion on this issue?

Second, you said “ From what I have seen so far they just don’t have what it takes to make me and my fellow Harari sisters happy. So brothers don’t take this as something negative and focus on the negative side of it” Look at what you wrote, you are telling me I don’t deserve to merry Harari woman and you said don’t take like something negative. You put your fellow Harari Men with in an interval between: above an animal below the other Men other than Harari Men. You reminded me what Dr King said, “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity”. Guest, you knowingly drifting the subject. We are in this forum not to destruct the whole society we are here to find a solution. Yes, Harari men have some shortcomings, there is a gap between us. We are trying to find a way to fill this gap. Guest, you are in confusion, I have deep sympathy for you. You sunk in to such a deep ocean and refused to be rescued. Inshallah one day you will understand me.

Third, you said, “I do have the right to choose whom ever I wish to spend my life with” I don’t know how you interpret my position I would never say people don’t have a right to choose their soul mate. If you fall in love with some other men other than Harari with all do respect get married and God bless you marriage but don’t try to justify you decision by bashing Harari Men.


This is for those who do have Harari Identity



We are in danger. We have an issue need to be solved as soon as we can. How we can defuse this problem. I list some of the problems.

1, why our Harari women think they didn’t get a fair treatment.

2, What brings the gap between our women and men?

3, Does BERCHA can be eliminated in our community? If so how?

4, How our Harari Men can be more responsible?

5, What are the short comings of our Harari women

Guest, I guess you hit a nerve for a brother (D.C Conc) to react this way. Calm down brother, this is a discussion forum, not an attack forum. What is in your closet? What are you trying to hide for you to react this way and say what you said? Guest, I think you responded to him in such a diplomatic way and I applaud you for not sinking to his level as you mentioned it in your posting. I hope no one is intimidated by his loose mouth and continue to discuss this issue in peace. I think he is trying to intimidate women like yourself from posting by attacking them, please ladies be smart and don’t fall for that. There will always be someone like him to stop us from voicing our opinions. In the past we might have not had an option to look elsewhere, but now that we have that option he is fearful that he might just be left standing alone. The time has changed and we have the upper hand to choose instead of sit at home and wait until he comes knocking, I think NOT! God willing we will all find some type of solution for it with or with out people like him!

D.C Conc,



I am very impressed, you actually went and looked up ignorance in the dictionary, but too bad you failed to spell check your posting In the future before you sit and yap about something please make sure you learn how to form a proper sentence and use the dictionary you have very well.

Yes, I did say that the issue has nothing to do with abandoning our culture and religion. You are the one who did not read all the postings properly. None of the posting says we want to marry non-Muslim men, it clearly says we want to marry non-Harari Muslim men. Read, and read carefully As far as my culture goes, I am very proud of it and I do cherish it. I wear my gey genafi and fota proudly, I display all our hand made motts on my walls proudly, and I educate people on our culture more than you can think…so please check yourself first before you attack me, maybe you are the one who is doing God knows what behind closed doors. I know your type and that is why I am running away from you.

For the second issue, yes I did say that and so what? Again learn from it and don’t focus on the negative side of it. Again you made my point for me when you wrote “Yes, Harari men have some shortcomings, there is a gap between us” if you know that why are you still yapping about it, why are you still crying about it? Wasn’t the whole forum regarding your shortcomings and how there is a gap between us? Please stop going around the circle and try to work on your issues.

Regarding the third issue, if you never say people don’t have the right to choose their soul mate, then aren’t you contradicting yourself by attacking me for choosing what I want? Readers, please tell me what is wrong with this picture? You quickly jumped to conclusion and started attacking me as if you have something to hide. I am not the one hiding behind closed doors and doing God knows what. I brought my issues and I did admit to what I want to have and for you to attack me like that is just plain stupid. So please before you wreck yourself check yourself.

At the end you posted some questions regarding some problems we are facing…so please tell me how your list is different than mine? Please sit and read questions 1-4 and you will look like a fool who just went on and on about the same issue that we are trying to discuss. So, before I conclude this special posting addressed to you I have one word for you “DEDEB” – use your dictionary to figure that one out.

Dear Guest,

I assume that you are one of the Harari ladies, who have comprehensive knowledge, wisdom, character and respect everybody.

However, I am extremely disturbed and disappointed when a found a word like “DEDEB” on your last posting. Would you please retract that word??

Let me give you one more advice: If you are against being insulted by other, please don’t insult other. Insulting somebody is a grave weakness of a person.

Do you accept my advice??

ANWa

My fellow hararies we are in big problem we (hararis) are very small in number and in very few period of time we may be disapear from this world. Specially with the idea of some of our sisters chooses marry other than harari because of the short comming or harari men. My question to my sisters are what makes you sure other than harari man is better than us. some of us may be not compatable with you but there is also some who are very compatable. try to find who is compatable with you within harari men instead of else were just my advice. I am sure if you find those short comming with the non harari man you married you are not going to belame all non harari men are not good. that particular person is not compatable with you. don't blame all hararis cause you have been hurted with one harari man or one of your body get hurt. same could hapen with non harari men too. I think the only solution we have is to floow our true culture. our true culture is tied with islamic religion that is the only way to get out of missary. The last posting guest said it all most of hararis abroad are out of hand exept some of them those who are living in canada and Australia and they are following the "islamic teaching" are the saver one. I attended the celebration in canada held with group "sunatul jamaa islamic teaching with the student of the shiek Abdullahi Alharari" it is amazing and those kids are in right direction thier face is bright and they are happy i had a chance to talk with couple of them they are very briliant and they learn deen very well mashallah. learn your deen learn about marriage law too. don't marry non harari man for the sake of harari men are not good for me but marry non harari man just because you find him attractive and compatable with you. this is my advice to you. prefer harari man if possible!!!

Amir Nur



Thanks for the word of advise, and I really appreciate it. Having said that, I just want to let you know that I am not willing to retract the word ‘DEDEB’ from my posting. I meant what I said, and I will take what ever comes my way because I said it. I think as an individual when someone starts attacking people verbally for saying or discussing what is on their mind then in my book they just crossed a line. I am not the type of person who will just sit there and brush it off, for each unnecessary use of word they have used there is a price to pay.

It is funny how you were ok with him calling me and my fellow sisters ignorant, but you find my choice of the word ‘DEDEB’ as offensive. If you really look at what it means it is another word for ignorant, and I chose to say it in a language he understands

Amir, please don’t worry I know how to control myself, I will not sink to his level and continue to bash him and call him names, but I just wanted him to know that his cheap words will not intimidate me and will not make me forget to continue to focus on the issues. I am sure he will continue to attack, but I am very good at ignoring people like him!

Guest



Yes,I make a mistake on my spellings; hey I am just another human being. I think I have to explain what a human being is for my fellow smart and brilliant lady. First of all, I am created from sounding clay like the clay of pottery, nothing more nothing less. We all here (this world) to make a mistake and learn from it. You said, “I am very proud of it and I do cherish it. I wear my gey genafi and fota proudly, I display all our hand made motts on my walls proudly, and I educate people on our culture more than you can think” This shows me who you are. You straight forward a shallow person who believes in physical appearance than emotional satisfaction. Have you ever though of your kids when they grow up? What kind of culture they will stick to? May be they might get confuse like their mammy. Now you push me to give you another tag. You are acting arrogant. Have you ever said anything about Harari women weakness? You keep whine and cry about Harari Men. You make me sick lady. I thought having some sort of education would rise up someone’s level of thinking and understanding. Not in your case. One more time, let me explain it for you my genius lady of the century, what we are trying to do is: We want more relationship between Harari Men and Women and we want the way how to do it. Please I don’t want to read your rubbish complaints.

Dear Guest,
There no way of correcting mistakes my doing another mistake. Had it been that you accept my advice, you would have said " I made a mistake" agreed not to repeat it again. I don't know which book are you reading. But according Islamic rules, you should have patience for anybody who said bad words to you. I you are true Muslim you will accept my advice. Otherwise, I might dare to say that you are blinded by the western world behavioral problem the so called "ARROGANCE".

I wish we all meet during July 4 Ceremony and discuss everything face to face. But But, no insulting no fighting. Do you agree???

ANWa

D.C Conc,



Shallow or not, I will say the same about your postings. I will skip to read your rubbish postings as well and ignore you and your kind. I guess we have identified where your strength and your weaknesses are, and I don’t have to point that out for you. It is clear by what you have said so far so therefore I feel sorry for that unlucky lady who might end up with you – my communication with you have ended here. My focus is on resolving the issue at hand.



Amir,



I understand the Islamic rules very well, and if you are truly saying that you follow the Islamic rules, then I can say you failed to look at this fairly and point out what we both have said. You clearly asked me to retract what I said, but yet you chose to ignore, the entire name calling from him (no need to write it down). Our religion is a fair religion, and it does not say treat others unfairly. That is all I am saying on this one. Please don’t bother to reply on this one since I know where you stand.

Here we go again, we talk about how I am blinded by the western world and blah, blah…believe it or not what you all have forgotten to do is to stop and think how this western world you are trashing this much have taught you a lot. This western world that you live in and your children live in have given us all such an opportunity to be where we are at today. This western world that is so scary for some is a such a great place we all want to be in, we all want to have and raise our kids in, we all want to bring our sisters/brothers etc…too, but yet God forbid a sister speaks out and all of a sudden it is a place that is just problematic and the wrong place to be in. I don’t see you or anyone else for that matter packing and leaving if you see it to be such a poisonous place to live in. What a shame!I am glad you mentioned July 4th, I will be there and I will be ready to take on anyone who would like to challenge me in a diplomatic way. I don’t deal with people who are just down right disrespectful. Tell me where and when, I will be there, and be ready for it.

D.C. concern

Your qout is perfect

"If you fall in love with some other men other than Harari with all do respect get married and God bless you marriage but don’t try to justify you decision by bashing Harari Men. "

learn Harari woman from this qoute!!!

Ahaa

We all know how we all start something, but never finish it I hope this type of exchange will not push some of us away from continuing to discuss the issue. I hope we all see this as something we can learn from and continue to discuss it professionally. You both said what you had to say, you both have agreed not to read each other’s postings, and maybe you both pull all the energy towards working in resolving the issue.

Thanks

Thanks Leila, I do agree with your points. I wish everybody focus on discussing the issue. I have mentioned this on my previous posting but Guest and Conc.DC continued insulting each other. I am begging both of them in the name of Allah (S.W.) to stop such thing and let us come back and point out the major factors that hinder us from understanding each other, while trying to have marital relation.

Let us classify the problems in three groups:

• Problem from the females side
  
• Problem from the male side
  
• External factors
  

Guest,

If you read my previous posting I have advised both of you to stop insulting each other. If you still think that I am inclined to the man. I would like to say Sorry!!!

By the way I want to tell you that I am a person you have been involved on different research and intervention programs related to right of African females.

So don't think that I am biased.



ANWa

Thanx, ahaa